Talk Marketing

YouTube SEO Tips and Tools With Atiba (Podcast)

In this episode, Atiba de Souza talks with John McDougall about YouTube SEO tips. Working in the SEO industry since the early years and developing a search engine gave de Souza unique insights on the SEO process. Now, his company Client Attraction Pros helps people ideate, create, and optimize YouTube videos.

John McDougall: Hey, this is John McDougall with Talk Marketing Made Easy, and I’m here today with Atiba de Souza of Client Attraction Pros. Welcome.

Atiba de Souza: Hey, John. Thank you for having me. Such a pleasure to be here, my friend.

The Early Years of Search Engine Optimization

John McDougall: Yeah. We’re kindred spirits. We just had a good little chat, and we’re both coming from having done SEO in the ’96 era.

Atiba: Oh yeah. Back when people didn’t even know what it was, and somehow you found the first class ever.

John: Pretty much. My brother did, actually. My brother signed us up and he is like, “If we’re building all these websites, you’re building them at the agency and we’re building one for the startup company.” And thank God, he signed us up because I fell in love that early era. I don’t know if you remember, there was this book by Mike Grehan. Yeah. There’s this book where he interviewed… It was the first SEO book that I remember ever coming out. And there were no SEO books at bookstores.

Atiba: At that time.

John: And it was online only. And he interviewed engineers, search engineers at Lycos and AOL and all these places. And it was like the engineers describing what a search engine was and how you could potentially get listed. And it was like, “Oh my God, that book was gold.”

And then he said, “Oh, I’m going to make another version of it.” And years later, like, “Mike, come on. Are you going to publish that?” And then all of a sudden in bookstores it’s like, “Ooh, SEO visibility and magnifying glasses and binoculars and everybody…” I’m bringing you back to that time, right?

Atiba: Yeah. And we started off on the inside. So we started off building our own search engine.

John: Oh, really?

Atiba: Yeah. And so we were looking at SEO from that side of understanding how search actually worked and…

John: Interesting.

Atiba: So we built our first search engine in 1996. Now we didn’t know what we had. We wish we did.

John: Right. Yeah. You’d be sitting on a mountain of cash.

Atiba: Right. I tell people all the time, “We sold versions of it and made in 1996 $2,500 off of it, and we thought we were geniuses.”

John: Yeah. That’s cool. That’s a good story. Yeah. But on the other hand, even if you took it off, I mean, look at the people that went down. I mean, Yahoo. I mean, certainly, Dogpile, I don’t know what they were thinking with that name, it is a little rough, but I mean, it’s a fun name, but I’m not sure the masses touch it, and AOL and all these other things.

I mean, Google just… I mean, you could also get your butt handed to you, but that experience I think makes you in another level of understanding of SEO, right?

How Building a Search Engine Influenced the Understanding of SEO

Atiba: Yeah. And so I’m thankful for the experience. And so people often ask me, what one of my greatest failures was that led to great success, and that was it. Because by 2000… Actually, it wasn’t even 2000, it was ’97 that we realized, “Oh crap, we just lost it.” We could have made too much money.

But knowing that from the inside out then has helped me over time because we kept building search systems until through 2005 for different agencies in the government. But that gives me such a unique perspective on understanding what’s really going on.

Getting Started With SEO for YouTube

John: Yeah. No, not everybody has that, thinking in terms of algorithms or how search works. How do you get started with YouTube and YouTube SEO?

Atiba: Yeah. So that’s a fun story. So we’ve been in the written SEO space since 2007. And in 2007, we realized that one, businesses wanted to rank in search so that their customers could find them easier. Two, Google was having a major problem because so many people were, if you remember, 2005, 2007, spamming Google with the white text on the bottom with extra words in it with the spam links and so on and so forth. And so that was their problem.

They were trying to figure out how to get spammers off the top of page one, how to get good content up there. And so we figured out how to create that content for our clients. And it worked, go figure. And we were just able to rank page after page client after client. And it was fantastic.

Then about 2018, that really started to slow down because we weren’t the only ones creating great content anymore. And it was becoming harder and harder and harder to write written content for especially new clients with new sites and have any sort of success. I mean, it just was impossible. And so it was getting frustrating to be completely honest with you. And it was a good frustration because it meant more people were creating quality content, but it was a bad frustration because it was bad for the business.

In ’18, I wrote a paper on the fact that video was the future of marketing, and I took it to one of my clients and I said, “Hey, look at this.” And they said, “We completely agree with you.” Now I took it to them hoping that they had the pockets to afford the R&D for us to actually prove it. And they said, “We believe you, but we can’t afford it. We can’t afford to pay for your R&D.”

Fast forward a couple years to 2020, and we all know what happened. And when 2020 hit, it hit us hard because a lot of my writers scattered and a lot of the clients scattered, and we were in a really not so fun place.

John: Yeah. We had a tough two-week period when it first hit.

Atiba: Yeah. And on top of all of that, I was already starting to feel burnt out. So I had this trifecta going on of, “Hey, maybe I should just let this go.” And then I was on my way somewhere in the middle of the pandemic, and when I drive, I listened to Audible and had this book in my Audible account forever, and I was like, “Let me just listen to this book.” And I started listening to it and there’s Sean Cannell’s book on YouTube.

John: Oh yeah, I have it. Yeah. YouTube Secrets or-

Atiba: Yeah. YouTube Secrets. And so I started listening to it, and I’m like, “Holy crap. What Sean is doing is almost identical to what we did in written content.” And so it made me ask the question, could we take that written content spec that we had for all of these years and revise it for YouTube?

We then spent, John, a year and a half in research and development trying to figure out how YouTube worked, how the algorithm worked, and then developing a product that we’ve brought to market in 2022.

John: Nice.

Atiba: And now obviously in ’23 as well.

How to Rank on YouTube

John: Yeah. That’s a great story of how it came to be. And what about ranking factors in YouTube out of that R&D and in your journeys, what do you think lately are good things to focus on for ranking?

Atiba: Yeah. So great question, and I want to be very, very clear with everybody right here. There is one thing that I care about and one thing that’s a sub to what I care about. And the one thing I care about is helping my clients rank their videos, not in YouTube, but on page one of Google. YouTube is secondary. Why? Because Google’s still the biggest search engine. Why? Because Google’s still the place that is the most intent based search engine in the world. And that keyword there is intent. People go there for a purpose. We don’t talk about views, we talk about meaningful views that lead to money.

So to answer your question more succinctly, title, super important, what is this video about? Okay. Very, very important. Your description, we’ll talk about this a little bit later, but there’s a huge lie that’s told in our industry about the description of your YouTube video, and we’re going to spell that today, the description, and then you must transcribe your videos. 2023, you cannot not transcribe your videos. Don’t hit the auto transcribe. I’m talking about actually getting it transcribed professionally, and we’ve got tools that help you with that, that you must do it. It’s an absolute must.

The Importance of Transcribing Your YouTube Videos

John: Yeah. The transcriptions we’ve been doing since, God knows, I don’t know, 2008 we started podcasting for SEO, putting up transcripts. Now for years we’ve been using It’s probably the more expensive way to do it. I’m actually looking right now at ways to using Descript and VAs and different things.

But we’ve been using… So we pay Rev, then we pay like a high-end proofreader to go through. So Rev uses AI then a person, then we use a proofreader to clean that up, write a title and meta description and then H2 tags for all where the questions are asked, replace those with good H2s. So is that what you do in your tool or your process roughly?

How to Find the Best Transcriptionist

Atiba: Yeah. So we do all of that through Descript. Okay. And let Descript handle all of that. And I’ll give you a secret. If you decide to go Descript and you decide to get a virtual worker to help you with that, okay, here’s what we’ve done. We’ve scoured the earth and we’ve found people who have done transcription for news.

John: And yeah, if they’ve done it for news. Yep.

Atiba: Let me tell you, if they’ve done it for news number one, they are super accurate because they have to be. It’s been trained into them. Number two, they’re super fast. Let me give you an example of what I mean by super fast. Okay. So we have a standard that every one minute of video, it should take you no more than two minutes to transcribe. That’s what we work with.

John: That’s what we say for editing actually. We shoot for podcast editing actually.

Atiba: Okay. Fantastic.

John: Right. Separate thing. One minute of video, two-minute transcribe.

Atiba: That’s been the standard since 2021 when we started doing this stuff. And for normal transcriptionists that you hire, some of them will come in a little bit over, some of them will come in a little bit under, let me tell you about the people who have done it for news.

John: Yeah. That’s really interesting.

Atiba: They get it done six to one. Understand. And what I mean by six to one is six minutes of original video they can transcribe in one minute.

John: Using Descript and then cleaning it up?

Atiba: Yes. Yes. We cut our cost by one sixth once we started hiring people who have the news background.

John: Wow. Yeah. So Descript gets it close enough, and that’s what I just tasked a VA in the Philippines with. So she’s editing our podcast and then we said, “It’d be nice if you could also, instead of us sending it to Rev, sending it to a high-end proofreader. Let’s see what you can do.” But yeah, if she doesn’t pan out, I might try the news people.

Atiba: Yeah. And it was dumb luck for us to find the first one and could not be happier with the work because it’s just a skillset I didn’t even realize to look for in that profession. But we found her and it’s been… She was the first one that’s been great.

John: And we’re going a little in the weeds on that, but in a way, it’s like, why would you and I go in the weeds on that?

Atiba: Super important.

The Importance of an Effective Transcription Process

John: Because producing regular, fresh, original content that’s thought leadership, not BS, not outsource, just articles that some agency hires some crappy person just to get you cheap content and for them to make a lot of money.

This thought leadership stuff is so important, but the transcripts and all of the videos and podcasts with transcripts are so critical that for this part of the process, I’ll happily spend 50 hours on the process to tweak my process because we’re talking thousands of hours of content over time.

Atiba: Exactly. And let’s think of it in this way. It’s like you meet the girl of your dreams and you fall in love with her and you date her for five years and everything is wonderful, but you don’t ask her to marry you. It didn’t finish the deal, and if it didn’t finish the deal, it doesn’t become real.

And that’s the thing that the transcript, why we would go so deep that the transcript does because it is one of the most, if not, the most important parts of your SEO strategy for video because it literally tells Google, “This is what my video is about. It is your opportunity to fill in all the keywords that you want, everything in that transcript.”

John: And you can’t really fake it like you can in a description because it’s actually what you said.

Atiba: Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Okay. And now-

Videos Improve Page Ranking

John: And then what about putting it on… So you put it on a page, we need to do better with schema markup and Forrester research from aways back said a page will rank 50 times better, from a Forrester research survey study, if it has video on it. So I think that’s where you’re going with it obviously. Part of it is like, yes, a blog post with an embedded YouTube video with a transcript is better than just being on YouTube. I mean, you got to get all this extra value. But on top of that, what is the magic… The other little bits of magic that make SEO connected to video work better?

Titles, Descriptions, and Thumbnails

Atiba: Well, the other bits of magic in there, then come back to things like your title and come back to the description. Right?

John:     Yeah.

Atiba: Those are super important as well. YouTube uses those for ranking as well. Then the last one, and this is always the hardest one to explain because it matters mostly about your niche. The thumbnail is super important. We are visual creatures, which is why video works so well for us, but we’re visual creatures. And if that thumbnail is attractive to your ideal customer, they’re more likely to click on it because it attracted them. Okay? Because it attracted them.

And it’s the part of the video that so many of us spend the least amount of time on, that care the absolute least about. Now there are tons of theories on the best way to create a thumbnail. I’m not going to go into those right now because I do believe it’s niche specific. I was just on a call with somebody yesterday who manages Mr. Beast, and they’ve got a theory, and we know their theory works, but guess what? Their theory works because it’s their niche.

John: Yeah, yeah. That’s a good point. What works for a lawyer and what works for Mr. Beast? Probably not the same thing.

Atiba: Okay. And it’s a trial-and-error thing to figure out which thumbnails really attract people.

John: Right. People are, oh, make really high contrast, bright colors, all this stuff. But yeah, maybe for the lawyers or the dentist, I don’t know, maybe it’s a little different. Maybe medical colors.

Atiba: And you’re selling nature products, then high colors is probably not the way to go or super dark colors, who knows?

How to Use Metrics About Duration and Average View Time

John: Right. So go based on the niche, but the thumbnails are huge. And then what about average view, duration and all that stuff?

Atiba: Yeah. So now we get into metrics. Metrics are always important, and it depends. It depends on which metric or what your goal is in terms of which metrics are really super important to you. Now average view duration and session time are two things that YouTube cares about a ton, which means those are things that you should care about a ton as well. Okay? So understand what I mean by that.

What I mean by that is the reality that if YouTube thinks it’s important, you should think it’s important because if you give YouTube what they want, they’ll give you what you want. And that’s a really important thing. And then this is not about YouTube. It’s interesting because this is every social network. Every social network works that way. Give them what they want, they’ll give you what you want.

Now when you’re looking at that, you want to then look at within average view duration, look at your different videos and see which ones did better on an average view. And by average view means how much did someone actually consume of that video? When you find the ones that people have consumed a lot of, then you got ask the questions why? Why? And there could be-

Looking at Trends to Improve Your Process

John: Looking for trends.

Atiba: Yes, yes, look at the trends. It could be a ton of different answers. So for example, you may have started this video the way you start every other video, but in this particular video, you say, “Hey, I’m going to cover four things, but stay tuned to the end because I got a fifth one that you got to hear too.” The average view duration was a lot longer. But guess what?

John: The tease.

Atiba: What did you just learn? You learned that if you tease your audience, they’ll stay longer. You may also see, “Hey, I said four things and the fifth one to the end, and my average view duration didn’t change.” Guess what? Your audience doesn’t like that. It doesn’t help them.

So you don’t need to do it. And so you are looking at the videos that do well and the videos that do really poorly. Don’t look at the ones in the middle, top and the bottom. And you want to figure out what was different in these and then run experiments to see, can I duplicate it?

YouTube SEO Tools Like TubeBuddy

John: Yeah. I like it. Good stuff, man. And what are some of your favorite SEO tools or rather YouTube SEO tools?

Atiba: Yeah. So one of the fun things here is they’re not great YouTube SEO tools I would love to have. But we use TubeBuddy a ton on every single video. Now a lot of other people like Sean Cannell use VidIQ, which is also a really good tool.

They’re both really good, it just depends on which one feels better for you. We like TubeBuddy. It gives us great suggestions on the title and how to word the title that’s going to be best for this video, takes into account the channel that we’re on and on that channel, what’s been doing well. So it starts to do some of that analysis for you that we were just talking about.

Same thing with your description. It’s going to do analysis on your description to tell you how to write the best description, et cetera, et cetera.

A/B Testing Thumbnails and People Also Ask on Google

John: And A/B testing thumbnails.

Atiba: A/B testing, thumbnails, and it goes on. I mean, it’s a really, really powerful tool and wonderful. So we use TubeBuddy on YouTube. Off YouTube, our favorite tool is actually Google itself. Okay. Google is great. And here’s why Google is great. You’re in an industry, I don’t know what it is, but I guarantee you can define your industry or your job title by two to four words.

Most of us can boil it down to two to four words. If you go type those two to four words into Google right now, scroll about a quarter of the way down the page, there’s a section called People Also Ask. Google’s going to tell you what some of the most popular questions real people are asking about your industry. Guess what? Make videos about those.

John: Absolutely.

Atiba: Make videos about those.

John: Google considers them related. So they’re giving it to you right there, handing it to you on a silver platter.

Atiba: Once again, give them what they want. They give you what you want. They’re telling you, “We want answers. People want answers, we want answers to these questions.” Answer them. Right?

John: Yeah.

SEMRush and Ahrefs

Atiba: And then the third tool is SEMRush.

John: Yeah. Nice. My favorite tool.

Atiba: Yeah. SEMRush uses forever keyword research and really gets diving in and understanding how to position things, SEMRush is it.

John: Yeah. We could go off on a whole nother thing on that. It’s a great tool. I love Ahrefs and I’ve used Ahrefs since, I don’t know, 2012 or something too. But I don’t know, SEMRush has just got a sweet spot in my heart, I guess.

Atiba: And I think that’s it. And I think for everybody, it depends on the way your brain works and the way you’re wired between which one of those tools sits better with you. I think Ahrefs is a fantastic tool, but logically-

John: For ranks, you can’t beat it.

Atiba: It doesn’t logically work the way my brain does. Whereas SEMRush, maybe it’s because they taught me how to think because they were one of the first big tools that I used way, way, way back, and I’m conditioned, I don’t know. But yeah, you can’t go wrong with-

John: Still Ahrefs I love for link analysis, for link intersect, best pages by links, best pages by shares. Those are some things that are just… So I always keep an active subscription. Actually, I really like their YouTube channel too. I forget the guy’s name. There’s one guy on there that’s really funny and really cool. But yeah, and what about YouTube services? How are YouTube services evolving?


Atiba: So the world is evolving. And at the time that we were recording this, we’re still in the super, super early days of ChatGPT.

John: Whew. Tell me about it.

Atiba: And people are just starting to learn how to spell AI. And that’s a reality that’s going to change what is available and what people produce. I’ll give you an example. I watched the video the other day, and this is not necessarily about YouTube, but understanding the crosswalk.

I watched a video the other day of a guy talking about ChatGPT. Okay? And he said… And I was curious because there’s so many obviously pop ups, make money with ChatGPT. So I just wanted to see what are you talking about? It showed up in my Google Discover. I’m like, what are you talking about? Yeah, right. And what he was talking about was take going to Udemy, finding courses on ChatGPT, creating an outline, then going back to ChatGPT with that outline, letting ChatGPT, write the course for you.

John: Oh my God.

Atiba: Okay. Hold on, it gets better. Write the course for you, then he had a third piece or yeah, third tool that he then took all of that ChatGPT just wrote and stuck it in here. And this third tool was an AI video production tool that took all of that, created a character that taught the class.

John: Oh my God.

Atiba: Okay. Now I know you’re saying, “Well, that’s a course and so on and so forth, but it’s video.” And so what I’m saying is we’re not far off of that showing up on YouTube.

John: And it opens the door wide open for non-native English speakers probably to do some pretty awesome crazy things.

Atiba: Which I welcome.

John: Maybe some of this is good, some of it might be crap, but-

Google Added “Experience” to Its EAT Quality Rating

Atiba: I welcome it if you’re an expert and you have the experience. Okay. And that is where, as you and I both know, Google just added a E onto E-A-T of experience. And that’s partially, I believe, why they did that. Because this next piece of life that we’re about to go into here with social, with marketing, with YouTube, is going to start to focus more on figuring out who actually has the experience to teach what they’re teaching.

John: Yeah. That’s what just regular ChatGPT content can’t necessarily do. It can’t provide the emotion, the experience, I mean, those things. In order to combat this whole army of people with AI trying to just outrank us and our clients, we got to just stick to thought leadership, stick to that unique experience.

Atiba: Yeah. Yeah. Now that being said, that being said, I’m going to shift us just a little bit in AI but shift a little bit when we talk about experience because there’s something that we’re working on as well. And I’m not going to sit here and say that this was an original idea because it wasn’t by any stretch of imagination.

I actually got this from watching an interview with the founder of Stable Diffusion and talking about his vision of the future, and that at birth that babies would get a language model at birth that follows them through life and learns them. And if you don’t know what that means is all AI is built off of language models that you feed information in. And that’s what the AI uses to then give you back content, whatever that content is that you’re looking for, answers that you’re looking for. So imagine every single human having their own. So one of the things we’re working on right now is at this juncture today, I’ve got 1.6 terabytes of video data of me on camera.

John: Interesting.

Atiba: Okay. And I have it all transcribed.

John: That’s a lot of content.

AI Language Models Built Around Individual Human Experiences

Atiba: Yeah. I have my own language model. And so we’re building a language model for me that when you pair it with an open AI language model plus mine, now we can actually create or ideate through content based on my experience.

John: That’s pretty cool.

Atiba: Okay. So what comes out is actually my voice talking about my history. So anyway, kind of future-

YouTube SEO Services

John: Yeah. It’s cool. Yeah. So what other things are you guys doing? You do YouTube SEO services and you’re creating tools like that?

Atiba: Yeah. So we are a video content marketing agency, and that’s fancy for saying, and we talk about thought leadership and helping people develop thought leadership. It’s really fancy all for saying we do video SEO because-

John: Yeah. That’s your main thing.

Atiba: If your video can’t be found, you’re not a thought leader. You’re just somebody talking in the forest to yourself. Right? And so we help you get those videos found. And so within that, the reality of that process is it’s a long, hard, and arduous process of lots of work and lots of back and forth and so on and so forth.

And let me be blunt, what we do ain’t cheap and it’s not for most people. However, there’s so many people who do need it. And so yes, we are developing a suite of tools that help people with the process of content ideation as they want to develop thought leadership.

So it’s not going to create content for you, but it’s going to help you with the ideation and point you in a direction or open your mind. I did a demo yesterday with someone, and she said, “Well, my topics were being…” She listed off half a page of topics that she should cover and was like, “Okay. That’s great. Let’s see what the tool does.”

And the tool came up with stuff that she hadn’t thought about. And she’s like, “Oh yeah, I should talk about that. Oh yeah, I should…” And that’s the point. It’s not going to create it for you, but it’s going to put you in a direction that can help you get to where you want to go.

Tools to Get Ideas for Content

John: Yeah. One of the tools I like for that is like the SEMRush topic explorer. I mean, there’s SEO market news and there’s so many advanced crazy things, but just seeing a mind map also AnswerThePublic Neil Patel’s thing.

Atiba: Yeah. Which he bought.

John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he’s got the coin.

Atiba: He’s got the coin, that’s for sure. Yeah. And so we talked about tools, and I forgot to mention AnswerThePublic. We also use AnswerThePublic quite a bit. We’ve been using AnswerThePublic since before most people even knew how to spell AnswerThePublic.

John: So you feed that stuff to your clients to give them… Take the ideas that they want, flesh it out, topic clusters, I’m guessing pillar cluster model.

Atiba: Yep, yep, yep. And so for us, so number one, the tool that we’re building mimics that process. And our process has to start off with understanding the pain points of your ideal audience. So if you can define your ideal audience, we got to go.

If you don’t know it already, find what their pain points are because if you create content, and so let’s get into content now, if you create content that does not speak to the pain points of your client, you’re wasting your time. They don’t want it.

Developing Content That Your Customers Care About

John: If you’re a big walking sales pitch, that’s not going to fly. You’re good.

Atiba: Well, even if it’s not a sales pitch, if it’s something that they don’t care about. And this is one of the interesting things about business owners. We create products and services, and we bring them to market. Now when we do that, there are things about that product or service that we think are super cool, that we think are super important.

There are features that we think you got to know about. But guess what? If our customer doesn’t care about those things, we should never talk about them. We might be super excited about it, but if they don’t care, why are we talking? Right?

John: That’s right. And your tool is going to help people with video SEO in that regard.

Atiba: Yes. Narrowing down what is it that your customers actually care about? Once we understand and we help you ideate through that list of what they actually care about through their pain points, then we can start with actually ideating the topics out of that, taking those, and the tool goes all the way down to creating, or not creating, but suggesting the social posts that you should create. Right?

Repurposing and Sharing Content

John: Okay. So an editorial calendar, the topic list, and then how it’s going to get repurposed and shared.

Atiba: Yes. And beyond that, because the other thing that we care a lot about is the customer value journey and realizing that people have to go through know, like, and trust before they can buy you. And so it helps you realize, “Okay. Here’s the content that I’m creating so people can get to know me, and this content leads to this content where they’re getting to like me, and then this is the content now that I’m using for them to trust me and then go on to start to buy from me.”

It gives you a different set of analytics to look at your content because so many of us look at content, and again, going back to a YouTube channel, you look at it in an aggregate, and you say, “Well, how did all of these videos do?” Well, all of those videos didn’t have the same purpose. And so if this set of videos has the purpose of getting people to know you, then how did it do that? What are the goals there? Getting back to what we were talking about earlier.

Setting Goals for Your Videos

John: Right, right. Set a different goal for those videos than just a hard conversion.

Atiba: Exactly. Right. So for example, you may look at the view time on the getting to know you videos because you want those to be super high, whereas you want the click through rate on the like videos to be super high. You don’t care how long they watch as long as they click. And those are the types of things that we start to measure for people.

And that’s why I said it’s not about views for us, but it is about understanding the process that your client needs to go through and are we taking them through that process and getting to the end goal, which leads to money in the bank for you.

John: Nice. And what’s that tool called?

Atiba: That tool is called “do it by hand” and that’s why I said earlier-

John: Nice.

Atiba: There’s some YouTube tools that are great, but there aren’t that many tools that really dive deep into the analysis and be able to help you understand those things. And so unfortunately, we do all of that by hand because there isn’t a tool that exists.

Contact Client Attraction Pros or Atiba With Questions

John: Okay. Interesting. And what’s your main site? Client Attraction Pros or-

Atiba: Yes. That’s our company site. And I want to say this to you, listening to us. Number one, thanks for listening all the way through to this point with us. And I probably answered a bunch of questions that you had today, and I probably also opened up a bunch of questions that you didn’t know you had before.

I’d love to answer those questions. So you can go to my main site, but you can also go to, meet, A-T-I-B-A, my first name, That’ll take you straight to my LinkedIn. Click on the more button on my LinkedIn profile, come down to connect, send me a message, let’s talk.

John: Nice. I think people should definitely hit you up for a talk and you’re going to blow their mind.

Atiba: Oh, thank you.

Thanks for Listening to Talk Marketing Made Easy

John: Yeah. You’ve got some great tips. It’s been really good connecting with you today. We’re kindred spirits, made a new friend, and I’m sure we’ll be talking again. So everybody, this has been John with Atiba from Client Attraction Pros. Check him out, give him a call, set up a meeting, and see you next time on Talk Marketing Made Easy. Good talking to you, Atiba.

Atiba: Thank you, John. It’s my pleasure.

John: All right. Talk to you soon.

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